Welcome to Human Marketing, a weekly podcast for B2B marketers. Unpacking how brands can stay authentic, demonstrate authority, and build trust as AI floods or feeds with content. I'm Chris Nelson, founder of Human Video. We remotely produce podcasts and other video content and real humans and just the right amount of soul. I'm delighted to be joined today by Lara Adom from Dream Data. Lara is previously at Red Hat and Gartner before joining Dream Data five years ago and is neither US Sales Manager. Welcome Laura.

Thank you so much, Chris. I'm very excited for this conversation.

Cool, cool. Before we get stuck into all things human marketing, Laura, I'd love to hear the human reality of moving your life and work from Copenhagen to New York City, which you recently did and you've been sharing some of that and LinkedIn. Tell me how has that been so far?

It has been great. New York is the best city to live in the us. If it was not New York, I don't think I would have been here at all, but there are two things, the reasons why I moved to New York. Of course, dream data is growing and we had already 50% of our revenue coming from the US while we were in Denmark, and if I want to be a salesperson and proficient in sales, well you got to be in the US because this is where it all started. It was like this is all where the movies are started about sales and all that. It's kind of that romantic thing. It's like I got to learn how they do this because well usually it's hard for European companies to get through into the US market, so that was one of the motivations. The other one was, well because there's traction and dream data, we got to grow it.
So to see dream data grow is very, very exciting for me. Plus I've got a family, so I've got two daughters and a husband and it has not been an easy move, but it has been pretty smooth. It has been a process of change. You have to plan all these things in schools and a lot of unknowns. I'm very happy and thankful for my family being so supportive and so kind of throwing themselves into this New York experience. New York schools are different. It's not like we're moving somewhere, I don't know, in the middle of the US renting a house and kids would be picked up by the school bus. No, no, no. All this fun of New York, if you could call it kids have to be taken to school. The big one, she goes to school by herself. All that speed of the city is amazing and I think it's also a very big gift for the kids to try it out and to be able to live in a different culture in a different society than they're used to. We are truly enjoying it.

I love all of that. I've been fortunate to certainly visit New York many times. It's one of our favourite places to go, but it's a bit like London for me. I'm from Belfast, a little tiny city in Northern Ireland, but I go to London, I'm like, oh, it's great for a few days and then I'm quite happy to get back on the plane and get back to the peace and quiet of home. So can appreciate and obviously travelled in Europe extensively. I do appreciate it's big. Must be a big change, but I love the reasons for it. I love that you're like both feed in to help the US growth and be with that team and do that really well. It was amazing. Yeah,

It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun and the team is amazing too, so we're hiring the right people into the team. It's not like Wolf of Wall Street that you might think of because this is sometimes I used to think I was like, oh, this is, I'm going to throw myself into this American sales culture and no, we're hiring the right people to join this company. They're coming in with their specific skills. That dream data also puts a lot of effort into having the right people joining and selling, so it is a delight for the clients as well. So no Wolf of Wall Street's here, it's an amazing company culture as well.

I love that. And further on, we'll definitely talk about you're humanising the company and your colleagues, but first I'd love you to tell me a little bit about Dream Data. Give me a little introduction to what you do, why you do it, and particularly for the marketing audience, why that is really useful.

Yeah, of course. So Dream Data is a B2B activation and attribution platform. The reason for the two words in describing the company is that what we help marketers with is map out your full customer journey and understand what's working in marketing and your whole go-to market and activate to get more of that, which means that whatever types of activations and what types of touches that you're having throughout your marketing, we need to get more of what's working and cut off what's not working and that might be your blog, it could be your digital ads, it could be events. So all of these things that marketers usually have difficulties understanding what's actually working down the line to keep on selling for the whole revenue even for upsells of our company. We help companies understand that, map out all of the touches and then help them activate those two to get even more of those leads that are actually converting and moving further down the pipeline stages.

Amazing. You quite often share on LinkedIn short videos where you're just walking through the timeline, which is one of the main outputs that I see in Dream Data is this timeline of touch points for all the individuals actually revealed, sometimes revealed or just anonymously in there, like all their touchpoints of ads and blogs and everything really. It's amazing the journey and I know you recently did a big report that's kind of amazing insights about the length of customer journey, the average customer journeys and all sorts. What I was really interested in is you get to look at all of those journeys in different companies. It must be amazing. I get to dip in and out of marketing teams and I see how different people are doing different things, but you get to see kind of behind the curtain of what's happening. Is there anything in particular, I guess particularly maybe now halfway through 2025 that you see in terms of content or different touch points along the journey that you see are actually working maybe in a new way or just insights that people wouldn't maybe know if they haven't had seen what you've seen I guess?

Yeah, so the interesting thing is the hunch that marketers have had for at least a year if not more, is being proved by the data. What I mean by that a lot of marketers trusted LinkedIn as they're working but have been pushed back by the leadership because those are expensive. Cost per lead can seem to be so expensive on LinkedIn for B two Bs and then they're pushed to just discard them and just go with Google and go with the keywords that are actually seem to be delivering leads. But during data's benchmark reports, we did one for LinkedIn, one for Google, happy to share any of that if you want to reach out on LinkedIn as well, that Google is the less effective channel for B two Bs and it continues to go downwards for not just cost per leads. So we're not talking the top of funnel, we're talking all the way down to either new business or sales qualified leads.
So marketers have had a hunch that those LinkedIn ads are working but were pushed to invest more into Google because those were cheap and those were delivering leads. But if you look throughout the whole pipeline stage like to SQL to new business, you can see that LinkedIn is delivering the highest quality leads that actually close and as a marketer it's really important for you to figure out how much am I ready to pay for a lead? How much am I ready to pay for an SQL and how much am I ready to pay for a new business opportunity? Then by that it's much easier for you to figure out what's the ROI, should we be even investing more into events or content or those paid ads that we had a hunch what's working, what's not, but we hesitated because it's difficult to map out. So this is one of the things from the benchmarks reports that we're seeing.
LinkedIn is so much on the rise, especially if you're able to map out, there are two things that you have to do with LinkedIn to be able to be very successful. Map out LinkedIn adds impressions with companies to your actual pipeline. LinkedIn gives you that type of report for you as well, but the importance of mapping into pipeline is you will be able to understand if you're targeting correctly and if those targeted accounts are starting to convert and when If you work with LinkedIn marketing partner companies like Dream Data, we have that API data from LinkedIn from your LinkedIn account when you connect it and then you map it with pipeline, the second thing you need to do is you need to activate offline conversions. That can be done through many platforms including Dream data as well. What basically you will be doing is you would be telling LinkedIn that the ad they served to somebody and they clicked on an ad did not convert after some time they converted on your website from whichever other source.
Usually that would be organic or direct like marketer's nightmare, but LinkedIn would only know that this lead converted if they converted on the click. If they didn't, you have to inform LinkedIn that that conversion happened after some time and this is what offline conversions do. As soon as you set up offline conversions, you would be informing LinkedIn which of the leads they serve to you have actually converted on your website later, even after 90 days, whatever timeline that you set that you would like that conversion to be happening to because in B2B, the customer journey is along and what LinkedIn will do for you. They will update their algorithm for targeting the accounts that actually convert or even become sales qualified or new business depending on how you set up your offline conversions. Our clients are seeing at least 20% cost per lead reduction with just enabling CAPI offline conversions and again, reach out if you would like some best practises of how easy it is. It can be done. Most of the companies are saying, oh, this is a big project, we need to do some automations and no, this piece can be done with maximum 45 minutes of your work and you'll be sitting 20% of cost per lead on LinkedIn of those expensive ads. Okay, so you got the two things of what's working. Here you go.

I love it. No, fabulous. Yeah, and as you say, it's a quick win isn't it, for a massive return. Fabulous and there's so many elements of it. I followed quite a few that the whole company is great at putting out short playbooks and the insights into how to get the benefits from the platform and it's constantly changing with the new features and things that you're releasing as well, you're really good at using video to just walk people through those things. Thinking just about personally, Lara, your personal brand, you've obviously for quite a while used LinkedIn to put yourself out there more. Can you talk me through a little bit about I guess the purpose of that for you and for the company? If you could just walk me through your thought process of why you're putting a lot effort in. You're obviously you're creating a lot of content, you're clearly doing the work there. That doesn't happen accidentally, just what your thoughts are, but behind I guess personal branding and across the company doing that as well.

Yeah. Well, I'm probably going to surprise or maybe not. It was not a very well thought of process to start with. I joined from Gartner. Gartner has a huge brand and we had three step sequence to reach out to CTO and you had a booked meeting, three step sequence back in the days. I mean, how easy can this be? Why do you need LinkedIn? So the only thing I used to do is like, oh, here's a new magic quadrant that we released and then you get three likes of your colleagues. That's it, but no proper outreach, no proper branding through LinkedIn, it was not really necessary because it was so brand related, but also then you get FaceTime with that CTO you booked the meeting with. That's it. We're continuing the sale, so you did not really need to work that hard to be top of mind because everybody knows Gartner.
The same was for Red Hat as well. All of your buyers, they know who you are so you don't have to work way too hard because there was not too much competition and then I joined Dream Data and nobody knew me, nobody wanted to buy from me. It's like what is happening there? Then our CMO and I, we were like, okay, so let's start doing this. It's like, seems like our buyers are on LinkedIn. Let's start sharing some insights. Let's start figuring out what's actually working and we started a bit randomly posting and since it was not thought through, we were trying to figure out what's working and one thing that still works to the day that we figured out is product marketing. You wouldn't think that you would think that, oh, you have to be so much thought leader and share the stuff that people need, but yes, you have to do that.
There's the whole process that I have mapped out. I did courses on that too. It's like how to map it out, how to become top of mind when people think about when the marketer thinks looks for a solution, how can they find you to start with and you don't have to just talk about that solution, but when you already have the attention, the best performing posts are product marketing and that was what kicked us all off as a company doing this at scale and what happened was I shared a story and the screenshot of how I close one of my first deals, what was the first touch, last touch, how long time it took, all these stuff that I usually share and Chris Walker, he commented on it and he's pretty vocal. It used to be pretty vocal against attribution because like credit seeking, you shouldn't be doing this, it doesn't work and so on because all those ideas used to be based on old fashioned attribution where it was like first touch, last touch and then we give the full credit to that touch.
No way, it's like a multi-touch thread. Okay. What happened was his comment was negative. I was still a newbie at LinkedIn. I was like, crap, I think I'll need to delete this post because I'm going to get into a shitstorm. He was already at I think 40 K followers by that time, so his comment got more likes than my actual post that says a lot, but I kept it said, Lara, let's go for lunch, come back and see what happens. And till the day we had double up visitors on our website that week and tripled our M QLS just by that and then we, okay, something is working there and marketers are seeing us even though those people are coming in direct or organic, how would the others otherwise find us and how come this tiny company with, I don't know, how much did we have?
Half a million a RR is being found by that many people. That was LinkedIn and that's where we decided, okay, we have to do this more frequently. We have to set up some kind of guardrails for people to follow. So we set up a challenge, a target for us to reach an amount of impressions as a team. We crushed that goal. We went for a dinner, we had a good time, but that kind of followed the thought process that this is working and people who do feel like they get energy and would like to continue that, we highly appreciate it and by saying highly appreciate it. There is no push like everybody has to be posting on LinkedIn. We highly encourage this, but there are a couple of things founders and C-level have to be posting on LinkedIn and then people who really think that they would like to do it as well, like myself, Eva, as Dr, there are people who really enjoy it too and that's how we're rolling. There are no big huge guardrails now we have much more support and help, especially now when AI has been much more prevalent in general in marketing. It gets so much easier for you to recreate the content and then give your own spin and so on. So this is where we are right now and it's much easier than it was back in the day and much more scalable.

I love all of that and I see it across the company in terms of what you output. It's really, really great, but actually particularly your video content as well. We kind of chatted a little bit back and forth. I think a month ago you helped me out because you'd been at a LinkedIn event in New York and LinkedIn at the time did a whole series of events where they're just really pushing video and introducing new features and things. It's kind of my job to know what's going on I guess in the LinkedIn world in video, but it's been tricky to keep up with to be honest with you. They keep changing how videos are presented in the feed, particularly across desktop and mobile. I felt a bit silly. I did this wonderful, put a lot of effort into this great video talking about how to optimise your videos for LinkedIn, this new way that LinkedIn did and then literally a few weeks later it changed to the game and I was like, oh, that's not, yeah, literally the format and everything was different, but I'd love to know, obviously you're going to those events, you're chatting to LinkedIn, I know you were at the LinkedIn offices as well at an event recently, which is probably also a benefit of I guess being in New York.
That's great. What are you hearing and seeing from LinkedIn in terms of that push for video particularly have you any insights from them that will be really useful I guess to the audience of this human marketing podcast

And it goes back to human so much because in general when you think about video or you think about a person, if you have seen person's videos or the person speak, you remember the person more vividly and that goes into all of the noise that we're here seeing and hearing people want to see not just a talking head, they want to see what's happening in their company, they want to hear some insights, but at the same time it is dipping into entertainment. You want to feel delighted or learn something new from that specific video and that will never change. Humans want to see humans to relate to that, so we don't only want to read, we also want to see that on video. So video works. Remember again what I said about product marketing. Product marketing videos also work so well you won't see that in engagement that much, but people will notice that and will capture that attention.
My product marketing videos are the best performing videos as of pipeline but not of impressions and likes and people when they speak about it, they remember those videos and they refer back. I've seen the customer journey from you sharing how does it work, but going into LinkedIn, so LinkedIn figured out, okay, video works, everybody wants to see video, you scroll video on Instagram, you scroll video and YouTube and all of the various places we should not be missing out because we work with people and marketers are buying ads from us, which means that they're a big audience of ours too. So what they're basically doing, and don't take my word way too much for granted because I don't work there is just what I'm seeing from when speaking with LinkedIn. So they are pushing video a lot at the same time they're experimenting a lot, various features go in and out as you're saying, Chris, oh, one day I created a course and then output a course because this doesn't work like that anymore.
They are optimising a lot for mobile. So now on mobile there are three ways of seeing a video to start with. There is the regular feed where you catch a video and just watch it but then look at when you click on the video you can also scroll further and continue seeing them new videos, just like on Instagram, the feed is not as much curated as an Instagram. You usually have the same topics that pop up for you and the reason for that I think is because there's not that much video content just yet which gives an opportunity for marketers. The more video you create, the more you will be seen and then your app has that video tab as well where you can click on it and only see videos and the same feature gets activated once you click on a video too, so you can scroll further.
One interesting thing that I noticed is that I think for me the last time I checked every third video was from a company, not a personal video from a company and most of the times it's huge company is like, I don't know, it's not even Gartner, it's something even like BCGs and big consulting companies that are posting some of the trends and so on, but it was from a company which means that companies needs to start looking into creating videos as well, insights or some stuff that their audience wants to hear about, not just the pitch but something that their audience is interested in and when you capture that then later doing product marketing you will be able to convert them further down as well. This is that type of invisible way of doing pipeline generation because you first need to be relevant for your audience.
They wouldn't convert, they would not tell you what they did unless you mapped out your LinkedIn ads impressions or LinkedIn video impressions in general. And then once you start product videos, then they say, okay, so you stand for this, you sell this type of solution, you help me to solve this type of problem and then later they'll convert. LinkedIn would not know if they converted offline on your website from that video because the video click happened, I don't know, two weeks ago. So remember offline conversions is important to set up, this is what's happening. Then the next thing that what I'm seeing that they're doing trends and trends are in my opinion, very random so far. It's day in a life or news from electric cars or it's like something very, very odd that I would never post about and they do suggest you do it because then it would be fed into that type of feed if you want to try it out and if your product actually or yourself as a personal brand, you speak into this. So try creating those videos that you can see. I think there are career advice, there's day in the life of a person, whoever the person is.
Then there are some other trends that you will see when you watch videos, you will see all those trends popping up on the top. So if you would like to test this, I would highly encourage it if your audience is actually finding you for that as well. So do that and besides that, LinkedIn wants you to pay for ads. This is their main goal. So the best way of using video as well is if you're going to start sponsoring your own videos, so somebody posted it, the best way to do it is somebody at your company posted a video and then you as a company you would sponsor it with money behind it because what will happen there is the person would still be exposed because people buy from people and then you as a company you sponsor it and that would look like an ad sponsored by a company but of a person Cognizant does it perfectly.
They're so amazing at this. Have a look. COism has the best stories of this and what I like about it too is you don't have to do it with your own employees. So either you work with influencers or you just have people talking about you just reach out to the person who mentioned your brand and ask, can I sponsor your post? It's a win-win for everyone because the person will get more exposure. You're literally putting money behind the person's personal brand. Then the second thing, what will happen is your brand is going to appear much more human because it's not you as a company pitching the product, but it'll be the person pitching the product and finally LinkedIn loves it too, so learn how to target and then you'll be able to track those ads.

I'd see those thought leader ads you're talking about where an actual personal profile is kind of popping up and there's just a little attribution to a company underneath it. It's very subtle and it's everywhere I look and I'm connected with a lot of folks in the kind of LinkedIn ad space and they're just all have these playbooks for how well thought leader ads are now working and it's exactly what you say, it's that people buy from people thing and I've seen a game absolutely across your company, but external people as well. It's a wonderful play to get other people talking about you and then just put a bit of spend behind that and it's a hundred percent what we're about in terms of creating human content and a big part of what we do is actually creating thought leadership content and one of the things we recommend most is putting those as thought leader ads and yeah, I totally see that it is kind of pay to play now, isn't it?
I see a lot of, certainly anecdotally, but it seen a lot of evidence behind the reduction in organic reach on LinkedIn, but particularly with the effectiveness of the thought leadership, it can actually be quite an affordable way of getting traffic as well. It's not as expensive, certainly it's much more effective than just certain types of content on your business profile. Laura, I've first came across you through your company podcast called Attributed or attributed this year that you co-host with your colleague Stefan, and it's great. What I've noticed is you key it up as a place for all your content to go I guess, and it's where you and Stefan appear on other people's podcasts as well and you kind of post those back there, which is great. I'd love to hear more about I guess that whole journey of creating the podcast, the story behind it, what it has led to how you use that as a company.
I noticed even particularly you seem to be really good at the repurposing of that. There's so many times I've listened to an episode and then even a couple of weeks later just the best little bit of that episode kind of pops up from you or Stefan or from somebody else on LinkedIn as a short clip that's really well repurposed. It's all the things that we believe in terms of designing it well for that different use case, that different distribution channel, great captions, all of those things. Just tell me a little bit about the story of the podcast if you could.

Yeah, it's again a very beautiful unplanned story to start.

Good. No, I love it. It doesn't seem to be a lot of planning and today that's great. It was

At the beginning,

Hundred percent. It

Started with LinkedIn again and it continues to be a big LinkedIn play as well. So to start with, nobody knows the brand. So what I was thinking, I saw that LinkedIn lives became a thing back then when everybody was changing their profiles into creator profiles and stuff like that. So okay, LinkedIn lives, let me try to do that. So my first thing, I'm in sales, okay, so I'm not in marketing. My first idea was I will be doing mass demos on LinkedIn live so people can ask me questions, but I'll just randomly a bit, I will be just continuing clicking my button showing you what's happening in the platform. So to start with nobody could see what's happening on the screen, but the second thing is two people joined and both of them were from Dream Data. Great, but we tested this out, it was a little bit nerve wracking because you're going live and what's happening and stuff.
So that didn't work out. The next thing I was thinking, okay, so I can do slides, can do big tech slides and sharing them and talking about the product and I think three or four people joined back again, same great. The next thing say, okay, so maybe not great because it requires some time to prepare and so okay Stephan, do you want to go with me live? You said besides me, we do this. At that time I think we had 20 people registering nerve wracking, 20 people are going to watch us live and our live did not go live. Something went wrong on the streaming thing. We had to switch to Zoom and say sorry to all those 20 people

Make good old days say

Yeah, nothing worked. At least five people joined the Zoom after that. So that's like, thanks for the spirit, that was great. But then I figure out, okay, so people actually want to hear other people talk on LinkedIn lives. So I did a couple more with the people from the office. I did it with our content manager, I did it with our CEO speaking through various things. I did it with a colleague who started doing LinkedIn social selling together with us and that started to get traction and we figured out, okay, let's do more, let's do more of this and let's do it a little bit more structured. So fast forward maybe two years after we have a person coordinating the list of people who are going to join us on live, we have at least a hundred people registering to every single session, at least 50 people watching the live session.
Some of the numbers are crazy. When we went live with Rich and Blo, we actually broke LinkedIn. People could not join the live because how amazing the live was. I think the threshold for a live is something like 1,200, a really random number, 1,200 let's say three visitors and then people cannot just join it live anymore. That was absolutely crazy. And so we curate the list of people who are going to join. Stefan and I, we split the people who we are going to speak with depending on availability but also on the topics. He speaks with marketers. I mostly speak with salespeople and then it goes streaming live on LinkedIn besides that. Then it goes into our podcast and then we cut all the pieces into content. So we'll even have people now doing that type of content and we do repurpose it both on Dream Data's LinkedIn, we push it as social posts to everybody who would like to post it on LinkedIn in our team as well.
So here is the two videos of the week, post them out. So it's not just dream data who pushes them, it's also our employees who do that. I schedule those two. It gets so much easier with AI nowadays as well because videos are cut much faster and subtitles are better, a lot of things because it learns from the way you do it. So it became that scalable way of running this. So we then share it with people who were on the podcast and it just goes further into the whole world of LinkedIn and the beautiful part of it is we're able to see who attended the LinkedIn lives and that is mapped to a customer journey too. So there is no registration page, you don't have to put in your email or anything, but you as a company and a person actually, yeah, and a person for LinkedIn lives, you are added to the customer journey. We don't do much with that. We don't reach out trying to cold book them or anything. It's just a webinar, but it's a branding touch that you would know that this person attended this and then later on if they end up buying or you would like to add it as an audience or offline conversion through dream data, it's there for you. So now it became that big machine of content repurposing ads, audiences and all that jazz. So it's actually surprising now. It's the first time somebody asked me about this and this is big,

It was like the main thing I wanted to ask you about this. So we remotely produce video podcasts. It's kind of the biggest thing that we do. So I like, I'm super interested in, I've been following it for a while, just really interested in I guess the story behind it but also just the reality of what that is doing for you as a company. Like the unexpected benefits. Because quite often here people say get to the end of the sales post and they say, well actually, or even just entering the sales process, they're so further down the line because they've been consuming your content. They certainly know you better because they've been listening to you, but they also just trust you much more initially because they've heard ours and ours of you telling the other people and they kind of know you don't know them but they know you and that's that kind of weird thing. You hear stories of folks at live events and conferences and random folks coming up to them and just saying, I knew you, I've sort of really enjoyed the podcast and just chatting away as if they're your friend and I'm just really interested in the unexpected benefits and the other kind of upsides of I guess investing that time in a podcast as a business.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's definitely worth it. It's again, the same thing with LinkedIn ads. It's difficult to prove and it's even more difficult with podcasts because how do we know? But if you hook it up to a LinkedIn Live, you would always see how many people both watched it live and registered for it. So you already have two proxies of what has happened. Then you can put it into a podcast and then you will see other metrics for that podcast too and people will start seeing you after the fact so they don't have to listen to it live. So you'll both have it as content on LinkedIn as a podcast and post-production as well of that podcast is very important. So don't do just sound podcasts, do video as well because it's really important for you to be able to repurpose that and use it later for any type of content. We sometimes even use it in the sales process, look at that these two marketers we're speaking exactly about the topic that you're trying to solve. So maybe that would be relevant, like either cold or reactivating some of the prospects and it's not yourself speaking, it's somebody else. It's perfect.

Absolutely, yes, a third party validation. It's so much more powerful, isn't it? And do you find people in sales calls, do they reference the podcast at all? Does that happen? Do you hear people saying, I have been listened to, I first heard about you from a podcast or on somebody else's podcast even?

Yeah, they do. They do. Most of the time that is due to LinkedIn lives though I think people consume that many podcasts that they don't recognise that enough. So especially if you have a playlist of various podcasts, so was it Chris or was it Thomas or was it Anna who mentioned it? They wouldn't remember it. But then after listening to more and more the topic would be top of mind and then later they would be able to reach out to because they knew the brand as well. So there is, especially if it's only audio podcasts, but when you do repurposing you continue stating, staying top of mind for your own podcasts as well. But yes, we do hear people mention it.

Brilliant, brilliant. Recently there was something I really wanted to talk to you about and I don't know if you know much about this what's coming. Last week or a couple of weeks ago you launched a great new feature called Signals. And as part of that I was kind of listening along. I was actually on holiday yesterday or last week, so I was listening to loads and loads of podcasts and the latest attributed episode was an AI generated podcast, which was kind of all about the new product signals. And Stefan came out at the start and he was like, look, full disclosure, this episode is AI generated. We don't know how this is going to go but we're really, we're just going to put it out here. Hopefully it works. And also had a really big invitation to say, get in touch with me, let us know what you think. And obviously I was kind of horrified to be honest with you. I'm the guy that kind of evangelises about keeping things human and I listened to it and I did immediately get with all in contact chat a bit on LinkedIn and he was really gratefully he received my kind of fairly scathing feedback about it. I'd love to hear, do you know much about that episode? I'd love to hear your thoughts on that and I'd really love to hear if you've had any other feedback on it.

Yeah, thank you so much for saying this. You are the first one to ask this question to me at least. I don't know if Stefan got it before. This is so recent, so I love this so much. So what happened was our VP of product, he created broadcasts for internal usage. So what we're doing every single week when we release product stuff, small or big, does not matter, then our product team tells us what it is, why it matters, why is it important for clients and how are we going to speak about this? And all of that information usually is just presented on an all hands calls every single week. So what he did was he asked AI to create those podcasts broadcasts because he knows that most of the people either would like, you're waiting for another note, you will forget it, what has happened and so on.
And these are very, very short. So the one that you listened to was actually one of the last ones about AI signals. The other ones that he has released were very internal for, I think we did one for RY for other reporting and so on. So first thank you for mentioning it and thank you for the feedback to Stefan too because this is a test and it is an internal test again. So in a couple of years you will be saying, so how it started was an unplanned test and I'm happy to hear that it has been okay, fine received because it's a big part for our product marketing and the way people want to receive the information. Some of them want to receive it loud, read out to them while they're working, walking, or commuting somewhere else. This is absolutely perfect. So that was the behind story of it, literally to educate internally.
And then when we're doing some of the releases, oh wait, customers would love this too, or our community would love this too, so why not just push it out? So attributed podcast has three streams. Our LinkedIn lives the podcast that Stein has created. So this is purely product. I'm still so happy you asked this. And the final one is when we have been on podcast and we always ask the host, is that okay if we list it as well on attributed because it might be fun for our listeners to listen to another type of q and a where we ourselves are answering some of the questions. So when we're done with this one, we're going to ask the same question if we can add it as a part of our podcast as well.

Oh great. It's so good to hear the story I guess behind it that it was kind already created internally. It makes so much sense. And I know my teenage daughter put her kind of exam notes, gets those converted by AI into podcasts and she literally said and listens to your exam notes, which I think is a wonderful use of that technology. But I think my kind of overall feeling is that anything like that, especially maybe the launch of a product, if there's time and budget and energy to do it, that there's obviously a greater value taking the opportunity to humanise your brand as well and get other people, maybe get my feedback to Stephan was get the product owner to be on a podcast and evangelise about it, get maybe product owner chatting with the engineer behind the AI tech or something, them kind of having a great discussion about it rather than the fake people doing it.
It was like, and it was very clever, it's very good, but it is just still a little bit creepy for me. I just didn't, it was like, it is funny, but it makes so much sense that it was an internal thing to help people absorb the content and then just the opportunity, look, let's put this out into the world. And I love that really crucially as well. Stephen came at the start and said, this is generated by ai. There's a real authenticity to that of being honest about what's being created. But I just, I think the kind of flip side to it is this opportunity to maybe have what other people in the company kind of create an episode about a product release or just creating content about the product release. And I caveated a game with him saying, I'm sure you probably will have amazing videos that you'll create with people with a product owner or something about the product. But it was a real moment for me, Laura. It was. And I've heard even in the past couple of weeks, I've, other companies have put out fully AI generated podcast episodes. It's fascinating. I'm trying to gather up the feedback and hear how they're going down out there with their audience.

Nice. Very nice. Yeah, we'll tell you more when we gather a bit more.

It's early days certainly. Yeah, totally. And that whole world of guess of AI is something I think about a lot. Video avatars of people, that's a whole thing as well. What is lost in there? What if you aren't fully honest about what that's being put out there and the difference between just showing up as a real human and kind putting yourself out there rather than to saying, oh, I'll get my AI out, hard to do it. Have you any last thoughts on that world?

Yeah, it's the whole long topic about that as well. I'm

Sorry. Yes, that's a whole other episode.

Yeah, exactly. I am so much for human and for human creativity. There are so many pitfalls that we are already seeing where AI is not being humanised and what it's doing for our children when they're studying what it's doing for creativity of people. There are places where you definitely can cut corners on doing things fast, but in order for people to really harness ai, the ones that will be able to use AI and come in front are the people who are also putting in the heart and brain work into learning it themselves behind it too. So it's not just the outputs that you're using, but let's say if you take the reading example, you won't be able to recognise that it is AI generated text if you have not been reading many, many books, many, many texts, because you won't be seeing what's the difference between creativity and the difference between an output.
So for people to be able to get in front and not just to be more or less puppets of AI in a way, then you have to educate yourself in those pieces to do the hard work. And it hurts in the brain for you to actually sit down and read a book or read the whole big article instead of asking Chad GBT to summarise it for you. If you only need it for the message to catch it, alright, that's fast and fine, but you will be missing out on so many words that we're missing from our dictionary on so many emotions that can be brought through text, but also the same goes for video. Video will also become better and better for in the future too. And if you have not educated yourself to be on video and to feel comfortable of kind of feeling quirky as well, you'll be very, very intimidated by oh, AI can create those perfect videos for us of a talking person.
It's great. Well, the reason I'm able to speak so fluently and to look at the camera directly and to express my thoughts is because I have done it hundreds of times and when I say something weird or my camera flips or so on, that gives the edge for the video because that's what people like. This is how people are, and me as a person will be recognised for it because it'll create an emotion for the person on the other side rather than it's a perfect thing. And your brain would only capture the half of it.

Yeah, a hundred percent. And that's absolutely what human marketing is all about, Laura, that's brilliant. I love it. What a great place to land. Thank you so much. Lastly, how can people find out more about you and about Dream Data?

Yeah, on LinkedIn, seriously, we are mostly on LinkedIn. We do have an amazing website created by people and a lot of stuff is being pushed out there too. But whenever we push anything out into our website, it's also being pushed on LinkedIn, both in Dream Data's website. But I do share a lot of insights as well from the company on my own profile too. So just follow me if you have questions or you would like to follow up on any of the topics that I mentioned, feel free to reach out. I'm happy to have a chat.

No, it's great. I can attest that you've been very generous with your time and information with me in the past as well, and it's been great and I really recommend people do connect with you and with the great work that Dream Data are doing. It's really exciting seeing all the new features and just that whole world of attribution. It's wonderful. Laura, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. It's been great chat.

I'm very happy to be in your Frost Cats. Chris, thank you.